TwinTurbo.NET: Nissan 300ZX forum - Sure, I`ll play ball...
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Subject Sure, I`ll play ball...
     
Posted by kickerzx on July 17, 2014 at 3:40 PM
  This message has been viewed 1209 times.
     
In Reply To I'm glad you posted. posted by bartz32tt on July 17, 2014 at 11:48 AM
     
Message The ECU i had before the Vipec was a Link G4 extreme (wire in).
I was looking at many ecu`s when i was on my quest to find a new one, but i couldnt manage to find one that could tick all of my boxes. Neither did the Vipec, but i could live with that.
Several reasons for this. One is i want a lot of inputs and outputs. I also want to do whatever i want with theese ins and outs. Example of this.
I have my alarmsystem hooked up to the ecu. I can remotley switch on a speedlimiter that i have preset. And i can also switch on the ecu`s anti theft function that kills the engine.
Imagine. My car gets nicked. I get a message on my phone.
I track the car and follow it. Turn on the speed limiter and wait for a safe place to stop it and then bash the head in on the thief.
It is also very easy to tune.. Got a few nifty tuning functions that lets you tune fuel very fast and accurate. Like the "mixture map" for those that know theese ecu`s.
It also got the "selftune" function but i usually find those useless.
The i series is OBD2 compliant. Meening i could get rid of all my gauges and just use a phone app (i use Torque) to display all the data i need when i need it. Keeps car clean and anonymus.
It got CAN (configurable i might add!) so i can hook up can stuff if i want to. Like Motecs *888 I/O expander if i DO run out of ins and outs. The OBD2 part is obviously a part of the CAN setup...
It got built in trigger scope. ect ect. There is alot of pros with this ecu, cant list everything...
It does have its limitations tho. But the i series is a "new" platform and are going to have a lot of changes coming to it so i`m pretty sure many things will be improved.
All in all it is extremly versatile and is very good at what it does.
HOWEVER! If i had found it before i ended up with the vipec i would have bought the Emtron KV8, no doubt. Its not as easy to tune (meening its not difficult to tune, but it doesn not have the clever little vipec tricks in that regard). But it is even more versatile and have LOTS of inputs and outputs. It even got 2 built in widebandcontrollers, so no need for extra controlboxes.
It also got built in scope (not only for the triggers), 3 way axelerometer built in (that you can use for whatever you want), canbus, ethernet pc connection (alot faster communications between ecu and pc. Nice when downloading logs for example) and so on. Got all motorsport features you could want including traction and launch controll.
It is ment to give highend ecu capabilities but at a lower cost. Not as low as the "middle class" ecus like Haltech and the other in that leauge but not alot higher either.

Now about the triggerthingie...
This might take a while...
The original CAS on the VG and RB and a few other engines got this little trigger disk inside. It is two rows on it. 1 with 6 different lenght slots that is used to tell the ECU what cylinder is comming up for its fun ride, and a row of 360 slots that tells the ecu at what degree the crank is supposed to be at.
I say "supposed to be" for a reason.
As the engine is a 4 stroker a full cycle takes two revolutions of the crank. Now as the CAS is on the cam and turn only at half the speed of the crank, "only" 180 of the slots passes the sensor on one crank revolution. This relates to a resolution of one slot pr 2 crank degrees. This is a very high resolution! And this is also one of the problems with it.
It us usually good enough at a "stock" engine but as you start to upgrade to cams with higher lift and stiffer valvesprings and higher boost and more power and so on this introduses problems fast.
Higher cams and harder springs make it harder for the engine to pull the cams "over the top". The harder springs also pushes harder on the cams when already over the top.
This pluss belt harmonics and stretch makes so that the high resolution slots of the cas can flicker around in front of the sensor so that a slot may actually be read more than once creating havoc on timing accuracy. Its not just that slots may be read wrongly but if it was read right the crank still move in relation to the cas.. You know belt harmonics, backlash, stretch and so on.
A SEMI sollution to this is to install the AEM triggerdisk.
It has ONE hole to let the ECU that cylinder number one is coming up for duty (synk signal needed to run in sequentila mode) and instead of 360 slots for crankdegrees it got 24. Thats 12 pr revolution and realtes to 30 degrees pr slot. Now its not that likely for a slot to read more than once and everything is dandy..? No its not... The crank STILL moves in relations to the cams due to the same reasons so the ecu might think its time to fire up the plug when its really not.
The problem is lessend but not fixed. You NEED to fix a trigger directly at the crank to truly fix this ugly beast.
In my case i have an AEM disk in the CAS for the sync signal (letting the ecu know piston one is comming up. the other 24 slots i dont use), and a 24 thooth triggerwheel on the crank. Now as this one sits on the crank itself the resolution is 15 degrees. Would be the same as if the AEM disk had 48 instead of 24.

It isnt ONLY a problem with the Nissan cas btw. it is a problem with most cars running cranktriggers via cams or distributors.

Here is a one of my logs showing the problems ugly face.
Look at the top row. Engine speed (RPM) that should have been a fairly smooth line. Up on top there where the marker is the jump is about 600rpm`s. This is what the ecu think is really going on. An AEM disk would smooth this line out pretty good but the whole problem is not gone.

 photo log2.png

Here is something i stubbled upon the other day
You can read the whole thing or just scroll down to the pictures of the logged rpm.
This is on a Skylineforum btw

You need to copy and paste the link as i dont know how to make clickies

[ http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/266505-crank-trigger-upgrade-yes-no.html ]

Here is also one. It is really about a Toyota engine, but the Nissan cas is mentioned further down.

[ http://www.learntotune.com/discussions/topic/crank-timing-for-best-results/ ]

That learntotune.com site is something for you guys to consider btw... Look around it.

Guess i better shut up now or the post will be so long nobody cares to read it...

     
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